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 Post subject: Re: Peruvian... Altum sau Scalare?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:01 pm 
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pterophyl ... 2014346802

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 Post subject: Re: Peruvian... Altum sau Scalare?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:38 pm 
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dragos wrote:
Pai nu spui nimic mai mult? Scoti icrele din bazin dupa ce depun si ii cresti fara parinti? Pozeee si filmulete ?
Miine poimiine ne vei spune ca ai scos si tu vreo 3 serii de hekeli acum vreo 2 ani dar nu ti s-a parut suficient de important sa ne spui si noua :mrgreen:

Am facut amindoua lucrurile, am luat puii din bazin cind ieseau din icre si am lasat si ponta cu parintii in bazinul mare





Cit priveste inmultitul heckle-ilor nu inca sint concentrat pe linia a Royal Red Spotted Green, vreau sa mixez puii mei de F1 royals pe care-i am de la ultima pereche cu cei noi pe care i-am adus in 2011 din Columbia

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 Post subject: d
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Dragii mei... singurii Pterophyllum altum sunt cei de Orinoco. Ceilalti sunt scalari cu o forma sau alta.

Superbi, sa-ti traiasca!

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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:28 pm 
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LucianVlad wrote:
Dragii mei... singurii Pterophyllum altum sunt cei de Orinoco. Ceilalti sunt scalari cu o forma sau alta.

Superbi, sa-ti traiasca!

Cam radical modul de exprimare mai ales ca nici macar oamenii de stiinta care au studiat acesti pesti dpdv genetic nu au cazut inca de acord ....
Parerea mea este ca ce ai spus mai sus ar fi fost mai ok daca ar fi avut in fata si cuvintele ''parerea mea''

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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:03 am 
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Nu vreau sa intru intr-o polemica pe tema asta. In Amazon sau oricare afluent al lui nu exista Pterophyllum altum. Niciodata Pterophyllum din bazinul amazoniam nu va ajunge la dimensiunile si forma altum-ului din Orinoco. Sunt insa multi producatori care folosesc denumiri gen "Peruensis altum" si alte balarii. Nu exista altum in Peru asa cum nu exista nici in Malawi. Trebuie sa facem diferenta intre lucruri altfel ii denumim pe toti scalari si gata. Va atasez aici o discutie cu Heiko Bleher de pe FB:

Eu: good afternoon Sir
HB: good afternoon
Eu: I read that in 1970 or something an Fish farm was flooded on Nanay River shore and a lot of fish species finished in the wild
what do you know about this?
HB: it is all written up extensively in my Bleher's Discus volume 1 and volume 2. If you refere to Discus, than those escaped, because the boat sunk with 3000 Green disvus from the Rio Jutaí.
EU: how about Pterophyllum?
HB: the nanay variant is endemic
Eu: ohh, I understand
some voices say that it is an hybrid betwin Pterophyllum altum and Pterophylum scalare
HB: those who say that are idiots (I find no other word, as Nanay is Amazon basin and P. altum lives ONLY in the Orinoco basin).
Eu: They say that on that boat there were Alums also
and they combined with Nanay scalare
HB:there is no way a boat can travel from Orinoco to Amazon, unless the boat can fly - If you inform yourself correctly in serious literaturte, you can easily find the entire history. But not on the www. and not from idots
Eu: thank you for the info
HB:welcome
Eu:where can I find serious literature?
btw. The entire story of angelfishes from both river systems with photos was in DISCUSBOOK01, but is sold out. Also appeared in AMAZONAS issue last year.
it is also written in my books: Bleher's Discus volume 1 - and yearly in DISCUSBOOK - see http://www.aquapress-bleher.com
Eu:thank you
I'm sorry that I'm bothering you with this kind of stuff
I'm just a beginner and the easyest source of info is the Internet
HB:and that is our today's main problem...
Eu:I agree with you Sir
April 9
good afternoon Sir
2:57pm
good afternoon

Acum... fiecare cum crede. Eu unul, daca as fi in stare sa tin altum (recunosc ca nu sunt) nu as tine altceva decat Pterophyllum de Orinoco si asta intr-un bazin de minim 70 cm inaltime pt ca la peste 40 cm cat ajunge...

L.E. Din punct de vedere genetic nu afli mare lucru daca incerci sa afli diferente interspecifice. Aici taxonomia este cea care ajuta. Stiti care este cea mai apropiata ruda a cimpanzeului din punct de vedere genetic? Ei bine nu este o alta maimuta ci chiar omul. Abea urmatoare in clasament este o alta maimuta, gorila.

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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Vin cu o completare (rectificare):
Singurul site on-line de ichtiologie actualizat la zi este "Catalog of fishes":

http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/r ... atmain.asp

La un search dupa specia "altum" veti gasi toate informatiile taxonomice si denumirile sinonime.

Imi cer scuze, aveti dreptate, altum este listat si in bazinul Amazonian.
Sunt curios ce are de spus Bleher despre asta?!?!?

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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Iata raspunsul lui de acum 1 minut:

The catalogue says: "Amazon and Orinoco River basins: Colombia and Venezuela." That means with 'Amazon' their (Venezuela's) side which is called 'Amazon' and referes to their state in the upper Orinoco. Unfortunately the catalogue is excellent for updates taxonomy but not precise in distribution, that is a problem in all publications, that is why I ALWAYS write it only when I verified myself. we will probably reprint DISCUSBOOK01 as we have so many standing orders already.

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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Ok inteleg ce spune HB dar e parerea sa si fara a fi demonstrat dpdv genetic ca altumii din Orinoco sunt ALTUMI si ceilalti sunt scalari eu nu voi crede acele afirmatii chiar daca provin de la un om pentru care am toata stima si consideratia.
Nu stiu ca cineva sa fi demonstrat ca in Orinoco sunt altumi din alta specie neinrudita cu cei numiti la fel dar care traiesc in Rio Negro si in Amazon mai ales ca Orinoco comunica cu Rio Negro si acesta din urma comunica cu Amazonul iar mie ''bunul simt'' imi spune ca e putin probabil ca pestii sa nu fi trecut dintr-un fluviu in altul.
Nu am pretentia ca eu stiu ca si aia si aia sunt altumi ci spun doar ca fara a mi se demonstra ca nu este asa dpdv genetic eu nu voi crede o astfel de afirmatie chiar daca vine de la cineva pe care il apreciez.....asa sunt eu mai ''necredul''....prefer sa gindesc eu, sa experimentez si sa ma informez cit mai mult decit sa cred pe cuvint pe primul care face o afirmatie.

Image

Vezi Rio Casiquiare pe harta

PS: Lucian eu nu te contrazic neaparat, ci as vrea sa dezbatem mai departe aceasta problema si as fi fericit daca ni s-ar alatura si altii.

@ADI sau altcineva care poate.....cred ca e rost de un nou topic deoarece altfel prevad ca vom face praf jurnalul omului.....

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 Post subject: Re: Altumii mei F1 (Orinoco)
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:57 pm 
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Acum banuiesc ca va referiti la tot bazinul fluviului Orinoco : Inirida , Atabapo etc, cel putin din astea doua am vazut altumi foarte mari care ...nu erau scalari


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